@majordennisbloodnok I have only been with OE for about 3 years or so but must say that my experience is extremely positive; their attitude to fair dealing and any problem solving leaves most other suppliers way behind in the dust! I very much approve of G.J.’s ethos and truly believe that he is on the side of the angels. No business gets 100% right all the time but on the very few occasions I have had reason to contact OE by email or telephone, matters are sorted out and resolved very quickly and with great courtesy; can’t say fairer than that! Regards, Toodles.

Whilst I might not view Mr Jackson in quite such celestial terms, I'm broadly in agreement with what you've said. My problem is that my deep-rooted mistrust of big business still has me half expecting an unsavoury revelation and for the whole relationship to collapse like a house of cards. That's not Octopus' fault; it's my years of conditioning by an otherwise universally amoral bunch of cynical self-servers.

That’s fine by me too Major, I feel it is a sad reflection on society that we are ‘jaded’ by our experiences - some of which might have been much better but for some (lookout Major, a Goonism coming up!) ‘rotten swines’ influencing the outcome.

As to the ‘Angels’ reference, this was a term I understand was used about myself some years back, by a research professor in acoustics and recording. I had occasion to do some work for him and he remarked to a late mutual friend that he felt my attitude to high quality audio recording set me ‘On the side of the Angels’. 😃 Regards, Toodles.

Whilst I might not view Mr Jackson in quite such celestial terms, I'm broadly in agreement with what you've said. My problem is that my deep-rooted mistrust of big business still has me half expecting an unsavoury revelation and for the whole relationship to collapse like a house of cards. That's not Octopus' fault; it's my years of conditioning by an otherwise universally amoral bunch of cynical self-servers.

I've been with Octopus for longer than you and, whilst I may not agree with every choice I've heard attributed to them, I still have yet to hear any instance of them not treating anyone honestly and with clear communication. Even then, however, the best I can manage is "well done to them so far; let's see if it continues". My confidence is steadily rising but it'll be several years yet before I finally commit, although they've got me closer than any other utilities supplier ever.

Yes, it was unintentional.

My excuse for the confusion being that my understanding of Octopus is similar to yours...  

I broadly think it is more about "Octopus are constantly experimenting with tariffs". They are generally encouraging changes of behaviour (to adjust to renewable production) in clients. At various stages of rolling them out, they realise they need to adjust them (be it for customer behaviour or market changes). But they honour their contracts. So this builds trust, market share and probably reduces churn.  

Other companies can be much more focused on near term bottom line. 

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How is a human supposed to understand the integrations that octopus came up with to make sure it only charges the car? To get them working you may need a few specialists... didn't work so far with me.

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The cynical answer is that perhaps they don't want us mere mortals understanding.

My gut feeling is similar, I think Octopus means well. 🙂 

So I can see someone dreamt a way to technically make sure the tariff is only being used for EV charging. But as soon as they hit the dreaded EV charger (that is yet to respond to my latest problems), they admitted that they only need to interface with the vehicle! 😆

This implies the current goal is more about monitoring charging... eventually they could bring a new tariff (with software that would do the same that the BMW app can do but also drive a dumb socket). Surely not this "smart" EV charger. I think they already sell EV chargers. They are not ones that would waste cycles trying to get around security of ISO designed APIs... 

They seem to have a good reference model of what renewable equipment could be in a typical home and want to map it. But with DNOs not mapping it as well, etc it is a data quality challenge. Octopus are also flexible to accommodate home grown solutions and they also reward "innovators".  😉 

It might be unintentional, @batpred, but that's a significant misquoting of my previous post.

I gave two possible interpretations - one cynical and one charitable - and concluded I'm more inclined to the charitable one. However, in your quoting you've only included the interpretation that I discounted.

For clarity, if we were talking about pretty much any other supplier I'd be inclined to think the worst of them. However, so far Octopus have appeared to consistently conduct themselves well enough that my instinct is to assume they're trying to do the right thing.

Same here.

The pace of change of their apps is absolutely mind boggling.. And very rarely have I seen any glitch. Their support understands niggles quickly and more importantly owns up to fixing them. 

...

How is a human supposed to understand the integrations that octopus came up with to make sure it only charges the car? To get them working you may need a few specialists... didn't work so far with me.

...

The cynical answer is that perhaps they don't want us mere mortals understanding.

My gut feeling is similar, I think Octopus means well. 🙂 

So I can see someone dreamt a way to technically make sure the tariff is only being used for EV charging. But as soon as they hit the dreaded EV charger (that is yet to respond to my latest problems), they admitted that they only need to interface with the vehicle! 😆

This implies the current goal is more about monitoring charging... eventually they could bring a new tariff (with software that would do the same that the BMW app can do but also drive a dumb socket). Surely not this "smart" EV charger. I think they already sell EV chargers. They are not ones that would waste cycles trying to get around security of ISO designed APIs... 

They seem to have a good reference model of what renewable equipment could be in a typical home and want to map it. But with DNOs not mapping it as well, etc it is a data quality challenge. Octopus are also flexible to accommodate home grown solutions and they also reward "innovators".  😉 

My experience of them for the last 6 years has been overwhelmingly positive, perhaps even moving towards relative altruism to their customers. They have to make a profit to survive, however that profit has never been excessive nor have leadership salaries been excessive in comparison to their peers. The relatively small profits appear to be invested back in the business but pension funds own a small part of the business so they must be providing a return.
I seem to remember Greg Jackson taking minimum wage for the years of the energy crisis and no silly bonuses, but being a private business there isn’t full transparency. On the face of it a good egg, probably next week we will find he was best mates with Epstein and my faith in humanity misplaced once again. 

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How is a human supposed to understand the integrations that octopus came up with to make sure it only charges the car? To get them working you may need a few specialists... didn't work so far with me.

...

The cynical answer is that perhaps they don't want us mere mortals understanding.

The more charitable answer is that Octopus are constantly experimenting with tariffs and so they'll work on the ease of understanding once the proof of concept is shown.

My natural mistrust of corporate morality would normally have me leaning to the first answer, but the way I've seen Octopus do business thus far has me more inclined to accept the latter - or at least believe it could be true.